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Offline Conman

  • MTS 950 Pro
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  • Posts: 383
  • Town / City: Stockport
  • Country: gb
Disks and Pads
« on: March 17, 2019, 12:00:02 PM »
Time for a brake pad change again. I'm doing the same commute I've done for six years but I've never had a bike go through pads as quick as this. Still, crossing three cities each with it's own rush hour snarl ups, and a total of 56 junctions in 36 miles I'm bound to be using my brakes a lot. I've even resorted to stripping them down after 3000 miles and giving them a good clean. Even so I'm barely getting 8000 miles from a set.

This being the second set, I've also had to replace the disks (rotors) which were all on the wear limit. This is going to be expensive! Original Brembo disks at over 300 each are a bit much for me (I think they've started to come down now but are still well north of 200 each) and pads at +60 a set (front) are also a bit eye-watering. After many hours searching, checking compatibility, comparing prices, comparing compounds, checking compatibility again and checking prices I finally settled on EBC "V" system for around 400 all in (ouch). EBC are a well known brand, I've had their pads before and they can supply everything in one purchase except the rear brake rotor. At the time the rear has to come from Ducati. It seems at the moment only the 950 uses that particular item but as it's a plain disk it was "only" 100. Ferodo also have pads but at the time no rotors.

I went for semi-sintered pads in the hope that they'll be a bit more hard wearing at the expense of a little stopping power. I reasoned I've more than enough stopping power anyway but it if it turns out they're really bad I can swap them again. I also ended up buying new bolts for the rotors for reasons I'll explain.

The rear rotor and pads were relatively easy to change. The rotor bolts came off quite nicely, and after a quick clean of the caliper the pads slotted straight in.


I noticed the back of the swinging arm has taken a real battering from rain and salt so it looks like that'll need attention when the weather sorts itself out for summer. The stone chip paint I used on the silencer has held up really well so I'll be using that again.

The front pads were a piece of cake as well, but the front rotors - oh no, they were a totally different ball game. Disks are notoriously difficult to get off a lot of bikes, they're a safety critical item after all, but why a manufacturer would fit them with Torx bolts - and crappy dome head bolts that are chamfered on the inside and about 5mm deep is completely beyond me. After chewing up one bolt, bending the splines on my Torx key and skinning my knuckles in the process it was time to get the big guns out (once I'd stopped swearing and kicking things).

The problem with a normal Torx key or ratchet set is they need you to pull with the bit perpendicular but only from one side. This is not too difficult if the tool is sunk into the bolt head but if the head is shallow there is a tendency for the bit to "roll" out. It's because keeping your hand movement perfectly parallel to the bolt is very difficult especially if a lot of force is being used or the handle is very long.

My solution is to fit a Torx socket to a tyre spider. Applying force to both sides it's much easier to keep everything in line and as my body is positioned right over the top I can see whats going on and put my weight down on the spider to stop the tool lifting out. I had to resort to heat to get the chewed up bolt out (45 second blast) and boy was I relieved when that worked.


I re-used the bolts on the rear rotor with a bit of threadlock as they came out OK but out of the 10 from the front rotors only 3 looked unscathed. If I reused them I could be storing up problems for the next rotor change so they were all replaced. At 1.00 each they're still a bit of a rip off but not going to break the bank. I also bled the systems through with new fluid.


First impressions? Well, I don't know if the "V" system does anything special but I think they look OK. As to stopping power with semi sintered pads, thanks to a myopic lane swapping truck driver I managed to get the ABS to kick in even before they're fully bedded in. There's probably a little more force required but outside of a track day I can't see it being a problem, there's still plenty of stopping power to spare and they're sold as "Touring Pads" which is what I'll be using them for.

Torque settings: - Front rotor bolts 30Nm     Rear rotor bolts 25Nm
                                Front axle nut 63Nm          Front pinch bolts 19Nm (in sequence)
                                Caliper bolts 45Nm            Rear axle 180Nm
If I knew what I was doing I would probably stop doing it.

Offline ducati_al

  • MTS 950 Member
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  • Town / City: Crowborough
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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 09:38:26 AM »
Good post Conman -  did make me laugh re swearing and kicking things - bit of a bloke "its not going right" initial reaction (seems we are all the same....). - can certainly relate to that.  Who'd have known that therapy was available through our Ducati forum...

Just one question I had - I didn't think it was possible to bleed the brakes properly on an ABS bike due to fluid trapped in the ABS pump that prevents bleeding in the time honored way - do you have a gadget that allows you to plug in and move the ABS pump?
If not, you will need a dealer to do that for you, and it will likely improve the brake performance.  Apologies if you know this already....

Offline ChrisS

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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2019, 02:11:08 AM »
Sorry for butting in on the conversation - but I've bled the brakes on a couple of Hondas with ABS with no problems. Just using a simple brake bleeding tube with one way valve.

The process was clearly explained in the workshop manual. Shame that Ducati don't actually sell the manuals like other brands so we could check the correct process.


Cheers


Chris

Offline Conman

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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2019, 08:49:38 AM »
That's an interesting point, and something I didn't know, thanks.

I didn't have any problems bleeding the breaks as normal but I'll see what I can find out from Ducati and if I went wrong.
If I knew what I was doing I would probably stop doing it.

Offline Conman

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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2019, 03:19:12 PM »
 :028: I've checked with Ducati and there is no issue with bleeding brakes normally; i.e. the ABS doesn't cause any problems.  :028:
If I knew what I was doing I would probably stop doing it.

Offline neilb

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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 07:00:30 PM »
Its only linked brakes that can be a right PITA. Never had any probs with a normal ABS braking system.

Offline ChrisS

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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 09:36:42 PM »
I seem to remember some of the big BMW's were really difficult because they had a servo assisted system with complicated hydraulic circuits. The first Honda I had to bleed as Combined ABS, front brake activated partially by rear pedal. I had to follow a set sequence, specified in the manual, and it was a bit more fiddly but not too hard to do.

 

Offline ducati_al

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Re: Disks and Pads
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 10:42:17 AM »
I once had issues with a Triumph which is why I mentioned it, but good to know in this electronic age that the old ways are still the best ways......apologies for creating uncertainty when there was no need.